Muslim cleric: women incite men's lust with 'satanic dress' (1 Viewer)

[ur_inner_child]

GAAAARRRRR
ok i'm a muslim
im female
i have male friends
i don't wear the hijab
yet so many people have praised me on my morals and such

i actually went to that lecture....did not agree with what he said in teh slightest..these lectures are only interpretations of these people and their impostion of their beliefs on others.

*noise of exasperation* MUslim women are not oppressed....I and every single woman in my family and circle of friends are testament to that...we go out, we have male and female friends, we talk openly to people, are educated (many of the girls I know are exceedingly intelligent) and yet still hold on to our religious roots...this man is quuite clearly an extremist..interpreting the Qu'ran, which enocurages moderation, and extending the words to an unhealthy extreme.
Please don't rely on the words of a single man to sum up our religion or the stature of our women.

you have it very very very different to a lot of the muslim girls i know. Although this doesn't disapprove how valid your argument is, and i'm glad that you can be so proud, educated and articulate with what you have to say, but I don't believe you represent the majority of muslim people... not that you ever stated that you did.

and maryk, nice post

 

[sugared plum]

actually Islam liberated women, there are many verses in teh Qu'ran stating they are the equals of men, Marriage is encouraged and celibacy for life discouraged as men and women complete each other. Women are to be treated with the utmost care and respect, granted equal rights as men, granted equal share in money, business, inheritance and what have you...i'll try and find the verses if i have time. so many people misunderstand our religion.

i don't deny that, but i was talking (very broadly) historically, when these world religions where slowly adapted, although sometimes giving women increased status, generally evolved to afford them fewer rights etc.

i understand the reverence given to women, and for christians Jesus had that view too. yet social conditions have (generally) led to different interpretations of religion.
eg Paul's stuff on women in timothy, just as soon as Jesus ascended, misogyny was rampant, and the marys and whoever else were back in their subordinate place.

it's very sad that religion is used to justify oppression.

 

[White Rabbit]

man you've got it all wrong. islam does not make rape ok. in fact it is completely opposite. islam forbids rape or any other form of harm towards others. everyone will be judged for his or her own actions and you cannot blame others for something that you did.

id also like to add something a little off track, but when you say u will fight for this country and your proud of being australiand that is exactly how the people in palestine and iraq feel. however when they fight for their country they are recognised as terrorists and extremists yet their love for where they came from is as genuine as the love u have for Australia.

Islam doesn't make rape ok. Islam in it's purest form is one of the most peaceful and accepting relgions in the world. HOWEVER, men have distored the Koran (sorry if it's spelt wrong) to suit their purposes. I don't blame pure Islam, for with most things, it's simply a scapegoat. I blame the people - clerics mainly - who distort it and use to condone a crime as horrible a rape. I have many of friends who are muslim, however they generally come from the eastern states such as the Arab Emirates, Qatar, Oman etc. And they are wonderful people. In general, lebanese muslims treat Australians and generally women as inferior from my experience. Yes, you have exceptions, but generally speaking I stand by my statment.

I love Australia and will fight for it. I wouldn't kill hundreds of civilians in the hopes that Allah will let me into heaven with 70 virgins. You see, I understand to a certain extent why Terrorists do what they do. HOWEVER, killing of innocent people who are guilty of nothing other than existing deserve to be punished. Because you see what they are doing? That is racism. That is saying I'm going to make a point, and the lives of Hundreds of you filthy infidels is worth much less than our lives. Don't you dare attribute my love for Australia and desire to protect her with notions of terroism, because that is what it is sunshine.


Kulazzi I'm too lazy to quote mate.

I realise it is a generalisation,but from what I've experienced, Lebanese muslims treat anyone of another race or religion as inferior. They feel they can do what they want when they want and not be held accountable. It undoubtly is the vocals within the group that paint this picture, but unfortunatly they are very vocal, and it's the cunts we remeber.. I've certainly met exceptions to that, but they have been few and far between.

And yes, the harrasment goes both ways no doubt. Were I grew up, Australians were the minority and as such, we coped the brunt of abuse. It's only gotten worse since I left Sydney. But I see were your coming from too, I'd be lying if I said it was a one way street, Australians do give it too, no doubt. I did, I was just silenced with cries of 'Racist' and my schools, of course. My earliest incidence of this, was when I would have been perhap 8 or so, in primary school. One of the lebanese girls called me a 'dumb australian', I was a bit taken back, as it pretty much came out of nowhere, and I made some comment about her being a stupid lebanese. I got into trouble, she didn't. It's grown from there. My friend in high school would be called a slut in arabic (everyone knows how to swear in arabic), they'd say they'd rape her, and such. They were swearing at her in class one day in arabic, she turned around and told them to shove it up their arses and she got suspended, nothing happened to them. Consantly get the 'stupid skips' thats all we were, no matter what they called us, or what they did, we could not retaliate because we were Australian and very few teachers would stick up for us, out of fear of being labled racist themselves. So, I've pretty much grown up with the constant hatred, and I've gotten to a point where I've had enough.



Maryk I'm trying to recall instances when religion has been emphasised. Apart from the Beverly Hills rapes, which it was made an issue because of the nature of the crime (You deserve it because you're Australian?) and because it was sensationalised news. Any other rape, or crime it's been of middle eastern apperance. Just as they're say of Islander apperance, or causasian apperance, for indentification and crime stoppers. Perhaps you're mixing up 'Middle Eastern' with 'Muslim'?

 

[rumour]

GAAAARRRRR
ok i'm a muslim
im female
i have male friends
i don't wear the hijab
yet so many people have praised me on my morals and such

i actually went to that lecture....did not agree with what he said in teh slightest..these lectures are only interpretations of these people and their impostion of their beliefs on others.

*noise of exasperation* MUslim women are not oppressed....I and every single woman in my family and circle of friends are testament to that...we go out, we have male and female friends, we talk openly to people, are educated (many of the girls I know are exceedingly intelligent) and yet still hold on to our religious roots...this man is quuite clearly an extremist..interpreting the Qu'ran, which enocurages moderation, and extending the words to an unhealthy extreme.
Please don't rely on the words of a single man to sum up our religion or the stature of our women.

Well said

 

[zahid]

Congrats she wrote the fucking obvious. However the subtext is that the muslim religion is bad.

She forgets to mention that the very religion she subsribes to also doesnt paint a pretty picture for women either.

I'd like to see her write an article about the stupid things said by catholics in regards to women and sexuality.

Marry me

 

[WonkaHead22]

who cares if she didnt?

it still doesnt justify this one bit

 

[rumour]

I know I'm supposed to have split this place already, but after reading this column today, I decided to make a special encore.

Because I think we've found none other than our very own tattodguy, the BOSer who believes that rape is OK (if you deserve it).

OK, so the article was by everyone's favourite highly-opinionated, generally misinformed and over-hyped columnist, Miranda Devine (gotta be a stage name), but who cares? We now know who tattodguy is.

Tattodguy also hates muslims remember?
So your theory is wrong.

 

[White Rabbit]

tattoguy hates everyone. Argonaut beat me too it...bastard

 

[jennylim]

umm it would be one thing if miranda wrote the article off her own bat about how muslim men treat women like shit. it's quite another when she just reports what some guy said himself. yes the subtext is that what he said was crap and was absolutely awful. maybe it was. you see muslims don't agree with it, either.

 

[Kulazzi]

I understand to a certain extent why Terrorists do what they do. HOWEVER, killing of innocent people who are guilty of nothing other than existing deserve to be punished. Because you see what they are doing? That is racism.

It's called being an extremist not racism, there have been some suicide bombers in palestine you know, blowing up their own civilians (Islam considers suicide a sin) not just Sept 11.

I realise it is a generalisation,but from what I've experienced, Lebanese muslims treat anyone of another race or religion as inferior.

But how did you know if they were muslims? Did they actually spell it out for you?

Ever since the September 11 attacks, I’ve also been treated as inferior by many various groups. Let me give you some examples, I was sitting at our school sport oval, not playing sport because I was fasting (one of 5 pillars of Islam), these boys from the boys’ high school (which is opposite to our high school) was coming round, as they were walking past me they kept repeating “Osama Bin Laden”, luckily my sport teacher was there and threatened to tell their principal if they don’t stop, who knows what might have happened if he wasn't there

Another incident was with my family, my whole family were in a car at a red light, some groups of Lebanese (or maybe some other), shouted a mouthful at us. My dad got really upset, nothing happened there?

Man, i'm easy to recognise and attack because I'm pretty obvious by wearing the headscarf, I'm not defending those Muslims who attack you or your friends but I think you have to realise that it happens to everyone

Consantly get the 'stupid skips' thats all we were, no matter what they called us, or what they did, we could not retaliate because we were Australian and very few teachers would stick up for us, out of fear of being labled racist themselves

I really really doubt that. Is that based on your personal experience?

 

[WonkaHead22]

well hes right, there seems to be a common belief that if you are white and you cry racism , you are either commited as a racist yourself or your plea's go unheard.

 

[White Rabbit]

It's called being an extremist not racism, there have been some suicide bombers in palestine you know, blowing up their own civilians (Islam considers suicide a sin) not just Sept 11.



But how did you know if they were muslims? Did they actually spell it out for you?

Ever since the September 11 attacks, I’ve also been treated as inferior by many various groups. Let me give you some examples, I was sitting at our school sport oval, not playing sport because I was fasting (one of 5 pillars of Islam), these boys from the boys’ high school (which is opposite to our high school) was coming round, as they were walking past me they kept repeating “Osama Bin Laden”, luckily my sport teacher was there and threatened to tell their principal if they don’t stop, who knows what might have happened if he wasn't there

Another incident was with my family, my whole family were in a car at a red light, some groups of Lebanese (or maybe some other), shouted a mouthful at us. My dad got really upset, nothing happened there?

Man, i'm easy to recognise and attack because I'm pretty obvious by wearing the headscarf, I'm not defending those Muslims who attack you or your friends but I think you have to realise that it happens to everyone




I really really doubt that. Is that based on your personal experience?

Yes, this is based on my experience. We would be called racially discriminating names, we'd be bullied and told we deserved it BECAUSE WE ARE AUSTRALIAN. Teachers would allow it to happen, they'd see it and we'd have to deal with it on our own. But the moment we made a racially degrading comment, we'd be sent to the principals office, sometimes even facing suspension. You cop flack after 9/11 - I've been coping it my entire life. Because I'm Australian in fucking Australia. If they have such a problem with us, leave! After 9/11, we had people celebrate the one year aniversery, it was a joke to some of them. I don't think you realise how horrible it really is, or you would not be defending them. I am Australian through and through - family came over in iron chains, if not, the were aboriginal. It makes my blood boil and I'm sure Im not the only one.

Furthermore, terrorist actions are essentially racist. Racisim is the belief that your race makes you inherently superior, a belief shared by many terrorists - they believe they are above us, that our lives are worthless. The two concepts are not mutally exclusive you know.


And thanks wonkahead It's generally how it is.

 

[physician]

HOWEVER, killing of innocent people who are guilty of nothing other than existing deserve to be punished. Because you see what they are doing? That is racism. That is saying I'm going to make a point, and the lives of Hundreds of you filthy infidels is worth much less than our lives. Don't you dare attribute my love for Australia and desire to protect her with notions of terroism, because that is what it is sunshine.

How many innocents have been killed in Palestine and Iraq?... who are also guilty of nothing...

why is George Bush not labelled as a terrorist?... shouldn't he be punished... How many Iraqi men, women, children and even babies have been innocently killed...
And if u think for one second that no innocent Iraqi's have been killed under the command of America... then u've obviously fallen for the media's trap... Wake up and go read the facts... if u don't believe me then there's only one way to find out... go to Iraq and find out for yourself

How many innocemt Palestinian men, women, children and even babies have been blown up by Israeli soldiers... Why is the majority of Jordan's population comprised of Palestinians?

Because they were forced to flee their home country...

On an evrage of 5 children are killed in Palestine every single day...
Have u seen the pictures of the few month old babies with torn arms and legs?...

What has made palestinians resort to suicide attacks?

Is it because of Islam?... Is because it's written in the Quran?... NO because Islam does not teach this neither does it say so in the Quran....

It's because they have been forced to blow themselves up.,...

do u think if Palestinians had weapons (I mean real weapons able to combat tanks and modern war machines) they would resort to blowing themsleves up?
Doesnt that say anyhting...

they have no weapons... they are being killed... they have been labelled as "rock throwers" because that's the only weapin they possess... In their minds the only thing they can do to keep their families alive... is blow themselves up...

If someone has been oppressed to an extent were they have to resort to their final choice (i.e. suicide (blowing themsleves up) then don't u think the opressos is the true terrorist... how bad do u have to torture someone to force them to do such an evil deed... HGow much torment does someon have to go through before they decide to do commit such actions... NO blwoing urslef up ius wrong... but why would u blow urself up in the first place???


If u think women in Islam and in the teachings of the Quran are supposed to be opressed or are oppressed then u have a problem... that problem is insufficient education about the religion...

... The Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) wives were always grateful in the way he treated them... he loved them with all his heart.. and never layed his hand on any of them... He was a humble man.. he helped with the housework and he was the best example of a true husband... My advice to anyone would be:

Read through the prophet's history (not from intrenet websites because many of them are full of lies)... but actually go and borrow a book about the history of the prophet... if u can't find it at ur local library then try at the University of Sydney Library... or any muslim book store.. then u will know what Islam really teaches about the treatment of women...

By the way this is not an argument against White Rabbit's post... I also love Australia especially for the freedom it gives me to practice my religion

 

[White Rabbit]

Please, go back through my posts and find any reference that I support George Bush and his actions? I agree, he's guilty too. I have friends who say their family was better off in Iraq before the invasion. However, we are not arguing who is at fault sunshine. I'm pointing out the crap I get delt for being an Australian.

I believe they are both as bad as each other - however the likes of Osama Bin Laden are true evil. He was not oppressed, he led a good life. He twisted oppressed boys and young men to become terrorsists. They are ultimatley tools used in a greater war. But, I can not find sympathy for someone who kills so many people just to be a martyr or for popularity, regardless of which side they are on.

Furthermore, I also stated that the Qu'ran in it's purest form dictates one of the most peaceful relgions in the world - it is clerics who have distorted it to suit their own agenda.

 

[physician]

By the way this is not an argument against White Rabbit's post... I also love Australia especially for the freedom it gives me to practice my religion

Did u see this part of my post

 

[Kulazzi]

Please, go back through my posts and find any reference that I support George Bush and his actions? I agree, he's guilty too. I have friends who say their family was better off in Iraq before the invasion. However, we are not arguing who is at fault sunshine. I'm pointing out the crap I get delt for being an Australian.

I believe they are both as bad as each other - however the likes of Osama Bin Laden are true evil. He was not oppressed, he led a good life. He twisted oppressed boys and young men to become terrorsists. They are ultimatley tools used in a greater war. But, I can not find sympathy for someone who kills so many people just to be a martyr or for popularity, regardless of which side they are on.

Furthermore, I also stated that the Qu'ran in it's purest form dictates one of the most peaceful relgions in the world - it is clerics who have distorted it to suit their own agenda.

I agree with you there, although I'd also say that the clerics overreact on it.n And I'll stop our argument here.

 

[fashionista]

you have it very very very different to a lot of the muslim girls i know. Although this doesn't disapprove how valid your argument is, and i'm glad that you can be so proud, educated and articulate with what you have to say, but I don't believe you represent the majority of muslim people... not that you ever stated that you did.

and maryk, nice post

i know i may not represent the entirity of Muslim women, but the fact that they do not receive the same opportunites as men is often not due to relgious reasons, rather the influence of cultural or societal values which may or may not have stemmed from a lack of education of their parents, community members etc. The women who are 'oppressed' like this are often found in houses where education seldom exceeds mid-high school, these people have highly simplistic and illogical reasons for treating their women the way they do...you can take any Muslim country and find a vast discrepency in the treatment of women in households/communities who have been educated in both Islamic and worldly teachings as opposed to those communities who have not been bestowed this gift.

like i said, i was at this lecture and many women were offended by what he said..particularly as he went completely off topic to announce all this (the topic of the night was death and what happens afterwards). This man does not and will not reflect or represent the Islamic majority as this is his own, illconceived and exaggerated opinion which is derogatory to women (SIN) and offensive to rape victims(SIN).

cheers

 

[physician]

i know i may not represent the entirity of Muslim women, but the fact that they do not receive the same opportunites as men is often not due to relgious reasons, rather the influence of cultural or societal values which may or may not have stemmed from a lack of education of their parents, community members etc. The women who are 'oppressed' like this are often found in houses where education seldom exceeds mid-high school, these people have highly simplistic and illogical reasons for treating their women the way they do...you can take any Muslim country and find a vast discrepency in the treatment of women in households/communities who have been educated in both Islamic and worldly teachings as opposed to those communities who have not been bestowed this gift.

Exactly... excellent points...

 

[fashionista]

Islam doesn't make rape ok. Islam in it's purest form is one of the most peaceful and accepting relgions in the world. HOWEVER, men have distored the Koran (sorry if it's spelt wrong) to suit their purposes. I don't blame pure Islam, for with most things, it's simply a scapegoat. I blame the people - clerics mainly - who distort it and use to condone a crime as horrible a rape. I have many of friends who are muslim, however they generally come from the eastern states such as the Arab Emirates, Qatar, Oman etc. And they are wonderful people. In general, lebanese muslims treat Australians and generally women as inferior from my experience. Yes, you have exceptions, but generally speaking I stand by my statment.

thankyou.
don't blame the religion, blame the warped interpretations of some of the extreme.

I love Australia and will fight for it. I wouldn't kill hundreds of civilians in the hopes that Allah will let me into heaven with 70 virgins. You see, I understand to a certain extent why Terrorists do what they do. HOWEVER, killing of innocent people who are guilty of nothing other than existing deserve to be punished. Because you see what they are doing? That is racism. That is saying I'm going to make a point, and the lives of Hundreds of you filthy infidels is worth much less than our lives. Don't you dare attribute my love for Australia and desire to protect her with notions of terroism, because that is what it is sunshine.

lol, this bit made me laugh. sorry for being pedantic but i thought i's set this straight, unmarried men or women (unmarried when they die) will be granted a partner perfect in every manner in heaven, not 70 virgins as if women come from a vending machine, other than that, the partner to whom you have committed yourself upon death will be yours for eternity in the Hereafter.

 

[Sweets]

Gosh, this just shits me. It's like there is no responsibility on the male's part. Thats what happens when people persist with a 8th century patriarchal interpretation of Islam.