Muslim cleric: women incite men's lust with 'satanic dress' (1 Viewer)

[fashionista]

well there are always gonna be those who deserve to rot in hell for the injustices they incur upon women, no matter where you look. it's a sad thought

 

[Kulazzi]

oh gosh, you know what's disturbing? I just read an article that women who wear lose clothes, baggy clothes and all cover up (hence, don't dress femininely) get raped in South Africa coz they are seen as lesbians and men rape them in attempt to 'turn them straight'

Well, that's in South Africa, not here and probably based on cultural values rather than religious values

 

[Sepulchres]

Having read the thread, I'd say it is blatently evident that the responders have a negative attitude toward the religion and its people even though a controversial issue is at stake. And, as a debate we have switched topics back and forth but thats given since its a long thread. First of all, we dont need people to come in here and say stuff like "Oh the cleric is a dickhead". Keep them to yourselves. Second of all, I think most people have seen through this speech and I agree, the cleric is wrong on multiple facets. But the idea isnt totally wrong.

If men rape, they are to blame. Theres no two ways about it. Lets make that clear first. Now, on the women's part, what you wear does come into consideration when you are the prey of a rapist. Yes, there are exceptions but the chances of a "sexy" looking girl being raped is higher. Of course you're allowed to wear whatever you want and have the right to not be raped. But, since when do rapists give a fuck about rights? In the end, if you want to lower your chances of being raped then dont attract attention by wearing skimpy attire. People have to realise that this(the idea above, not the article) serves in the best interests of the women, not in defence of the rapists.

Now about the person harrowing over lebanese people and their ways (White Rabbit I think it was). Since you are generalising that "lebanese people are racist/harrassing/etc" (and I agree to an extent, generally they probably are), let me generalise something else. "Lebanese people who are harrassing/racist do not bind well with Islam and it's ways, they have gone astray from the path that is Islam's." So there is no point in raising that issue here, completely different matter. And, if you would like sympathy for you life, this is not the place to do it either.

Thanks for reading.

 

[leetom]

In a Year 10 PDHPE test, one question was 'Only sexually attractive women are ever raped. True or false?'

I picked true. The answer was false. Any woman, regardless of what she wears is open to sexual assault. Rape cannot be excused based on what the victim was wearing at the time of assault.

 

[Sepulchres]

I forgot to adress another issue. Someone earlier responded to the thing about "Days of our lives" and ffs its only a tv show. Well, TV shows, fashion and social norms in general have a huge impact our "daily lives." I dont think this is relevant to what we are discussing here but it is relevant to other issues.

So, I'm going to introduce another issue to our issue-ridden thread. Divorce. Its a common thing nowadays. Things dont work out between you and your spouse so you just divorce them. It's a lot more common now than it was say 50 years ago, and I think that media/fashion/etc has somethign to do with it. Yes, divorce is allowed in most religions. Even the "all-evil, women oppressing" religion of Islam </sarcasm>. Throughout the late 80's and 90's we've had tv shows and films which promoted the notion of a single mother et father (but mother mostly) which changed the social norms of old. So, in effect, it created a road for the married instead of jumping the hurdles in their relationships, take the easy road for divorcee's. I agree, it should be there because sometimes divorce is the only way out, but, not always. Sometimes the problem/s can be sorted out, but because of this alternative, divorce rates have sky-rocketed.

And such is the relevance of TV shows.

 

[Sepulchres]

In a Year 10 PDHPE test, one question was 'Only sexually attractive women are ever raped. True or false?'

I picked true. The answer was false. Any woman, regardless of what she wears is open to sexual assault. Rape cannot be excused based on what the victim was wearing at the time of assault.

Okay. Lets sort of think realisticly here. It's all good to say that all women are open to sexual assault. Fair enough. They are. But, are you tellign me that, what you wear has nothing to do with it whatsoever? If so, open your eyes mate. My arguemnt is that women with minimal clothing are much "M O R E" open to sexual assault than others, which still maintains the fact that "all" women are open to sexual assault.

 

[mahuligan]

Well, instead of patronising me, perhaps you may like to read my previous posts. I have said I know muslims from Eastern states in the Middle East, such as the Arab Emirates, Qatar, Oman etc and they are lovley people. It's not the religion. It's Lebanese men who more often than not are muslim. I have a whole heap of mates from South East Asia who are muslim and the countries I previously listed, but I have said this before.

whoops i did sound kind of patronising..my bad. it wasnt intended to come out like that.
but yeah..what does being muslim really have to do with it, you said yourself that you know other muslim people of different races that are lovely , so why even mention that the lebs that were harrassing you are muslim? their religion obviously has nothing to do with their behaviour.

and Sepulchres, you made some really good points

 

[Sepulchres]

whoops i did sound kind of patronising..my bad. it wasnt intended to come out like that.
but yeah..what does being muslim really have to do with it, you said yourself that you know other muslim people of different races that are lovely , so why even mention that the lebs that were harrassing you are muslim? their religion obviously has nothing to do with their behaviour.

and Sepulchres, you made some really good points

Thanks be to thee.

 

[SabtheLab]

i agree with sepulchres. Idealistically, a woman should be able to wear what she wants without fear of rape or assault. But we need to remove our rose-coloured glasses, turn a deaf ear to the screams of raging feminists and face reality. The male race (sorry to all the guys, but it's true)by nature are more sexually driven and their hormone levels are infinite. All they need to do is look at a skirt and become hot. Consequently, some guys, due to this hormonal overload, simply cant handle it and are going to chase the girl. It's a fgact of nature. Guys are the chasers. Yes i know it's wrong and that idealistically they need to control themselves and rape is never justified. But we need to look at the bigger picture. Like many of my fellow forum buddies have already stated, the chances of a girl being raped is increased dramatically if her attire is flesh-revealing. And im sure everyone (including Gucci) will agree that the purpose and sole reason behind skimpy clothing is to incite men's lust. Thats it. Simple. Even the woman in this attire will agree that theyre trying to grab male attention. Ok so that happens. She grabs the attention of said male. What happens next? What is she expecting exactly? Just a quick flirt and thats it? To her perhaps, but the effect on the guy will be much greater. Once aroused its a lot harder for them to forget about it. And yet thats what hes expected to do. I find this a complete double standard and EXTREMELY unfair on the guy. She teases him with her naked flesh, shoving it in his face, and then telling him he cant have it. Its like a hungry person being tempted with a delicious banquet and then being told " Oops sorry, just teasing, you cant eat any of it".
Im sorry to have had to put it in this way, but seriously girls, you need to face the facts. Like i said before, idealistically, a guy has to keep his hands to himself. But we live in the real world and so we have to play by the rules of reality. You tease, and at some point it's going to back fire and some dude simply wont be able to handle it. Now im not blaming the girl here, nor am i saying she deserves it or asked for it, but you do at least, realistically, take a share in the blame.
Life is all about cause and effect. Why dont we try to eliminate the cause so as to reduce the effect.

 

[Sepulchres]

i agree with sepulchres. Idealistically, a woman should be able to wear what she wants without fear of rape or assault. But we need to remove our rose-coloured glasses, turn a deaf ear to the screams of raging feminists and face reality. The male race (sorry to all the guys, but it's true)by nature are more sexually driven and their hormone levels are infinite. All they need to do is look at a skirt and become hot. Consequently, some guys, due to this hormonal overload, simply cant handle it and are going to chase the girl. It's a fgact of nature. Guys are the chasers. Yes i know it's wrong and that idealistically they need to control themselves and rape is never justified. But we need to look at the bigger picture. Like many of my fellow forum buddies have already stated, the chances of a girl being raped is increased dramatically if her attire is flesh-revealing. And im sure everyone (including Gucci) will agree that the purpose and sole reason behind skimpy clothing is to incite men's lust. Thats it. Simple. Even the woman in this attire will agree that theyre trying to grab male attention. Ok so that happens. She grabs the attention of said male. What happens next? What is she expecting exactly? Just a quick flirt and thats it? To her perhaps, but the effect on the guy will be much greater. Once aroused its a lot harder for them to forget about it. And yet thats what hes expected to do. I find this a complete double standard and EXTREMELY unfair on the guy. She teases him with her naked flesh, shoving it in his face, and then telling him he cant have it. Its like a hungry person being tempted with a delicious banquet and then being told " Oops sorry, just teasing, you cant eat any of it".
Im sorry to have had to put it in this way, but seriously girls, you need to face the facts. Like i said before, idealistically, a guy has to keep his hands to himself. But we live in the real world and so we have to play by the rules of reality. You tease, and at some point it's going to back fire and some dude simply wont be able to handle it. Now im not blaming the girl here, nor am i saying she deserves it or asked for it, but you do at least, realistically, take a share in the blame.
Life is all about cause and effect. Why dont we try to eliminate the cause so as to reduce the effect.

Balle balle. Marry me.

 

[soha]

o.k my friends..and people i know dress to impress
wear things that are noticeable
that look hot
that will get a a guys attention
to pick up
and thats exactly what happens when we go out

whereas the girls that dress more sensibly..dont get guys asking for their numbers
or saying stuff like "hey darling or hey baby" as they walk past
dont get whistled at..dont get sleezy guys come at them..etc(no they are not lebs either..or muslims)

i think what you wear impacts everything..and its a part of who you are and ur identity and there is a psycological reason behind what we wear and why we choose to go out in jeans and a top rather then a clown suit..etc

thats why its so easy to call a girl in a mini skirt and short top a slut
and its so easy to call a girl in jeans and a checkered shirt a farmer girl or sumfing
and from a muslims perspective..wearing a mini skirt and having ur boobs pop out
is 2 a slight degree sanatanic
compare it to the way we dress?
head scalf covered from head to toe...not exactly heavenly in our eyes

this might sound bad..
but i agree to an EXTENT that what you wear can be PARTLY ur fault in case of harassment etc...
but YOU DONT DESERVE IT AND IT SHOULDNT HAPPEN...
and i think that guys in general..not just muslims coz statistically in australia we commit less rapes and harassment then others australians ...even around the world...
i think it should be focused more on guys lowering their guys..teaching them to contol themselves..have respect and stuff..as apposed to making the girls feel entirely responsible for a guys actions etc...

 

[SabtheLab]

soha, ur right. the women DOESNT deserve it but to some degree she is at fault. we cant just pin it completely on the guy.i mean if were talking allegorically in legal terms, rape due to skimpy clothing should be considered a provoked attack. unintentionally yes, but nevertheless, it was provoked.yes it is important that guys are taught to perhaps lower their gaze so as not to become aroused enough to attack. i personally hold much more respect for a guy who would lower their gaze and show interest in me as a person than for some bloke on the street with the audacity to eyeball me. because frankly, it makes me feel degraded and the whole situation very sleazy.

 

[leetom]

i agree with sepulchres. Idealistically, a woman should be able to wear what she wants without fear of rape or assault. But we need to remove our rose-coloured glasses, turn a deaf ear to the screams of raging feminists and face reality. The male race (sorry to all the guys, but it's true)by nature are more sexually driven and their hormone levels are infinite. All they need to do is look at a skirt and become hot. Consequently, some guys, due to this hormonal overload, simply cant handle it and are going to chase the girl. It's a fgact of nature. Guys are the chasers. Yes i know it's wrong and that idealistically they need to control themselves and rape is never justified. But we need to look at the bigger picture. Like many of my fellow forum buddies have already stated, the chances of a girl being raped is increased dramatically if her attire is flesh-revealing. And im sure everyone (including Gucci) will agree that the purpose and sole reason behind skimpy clothing is to incite men's lust. Thats it. Simple. Even the woman in this attire will agree that theyre trying to grab male attention. Ok so that happens. She grabs the attention of said male. What happens next? What is she expecting exactly? Just a quick flirt and thats it? To her perhaps, but the effect on the guy will be much greater. Once aroused its a lot harder for them to forget about it. And yet thats what hes expected to do. I find this a complete double standard and EXTREMELY unfair on the guy. She teases him with her naked flesh, shoving it in his face, and then telling him he cant have it. Its like a hungry person being tempted with a delicious banquet and then being told " Oops sorry, just teasing, you cant eat any of it".
Im sorry to have had to put it in this way, but seriously girls, you need to face the facts. Like i said before, idealistically, a guy has to keep his hands to himself. But we live in the real world and so we have to play by the rules of reality. You tease, and at some point it's going to back fire and some dude simply wont be able to handle it. Now im not blaming the girl here, nor am i saying she deserves it or asked for it, but you do at least, realistically, take a share in the blame.
Life is all about cause and effect. Why dont we try to eliminate the cause so as to reduce the effect.

Balle balle. Marry me.

You are excusing rape with male biological urges. Certainly, provocative clothing arouses us, but we are bound by morals and ethics which prevent us from blatently approaching a provacatively-clothed female and raping her. Mankind has spent centuries cultivating things like culture and etiqutte, of which non-consenting sex is not apart of. Our society, our culture and basic humanism should put us above primitive caveman desires.

The male urge for sex is equalled, in my opinion, by the male urge for food. Just because food and eating food are biological urges does not mean we can, for example, enter a supermarket and proceed to eat whatever we please. Society demands we earn money and BUY food with that money, the same way socitey demands we court and befriend a woman before having sex with her.

Just because food looks delicious does not detract from our guilt should we eat it without purchasing it.

 

[breaking]

o.k my friends..and people i know dress to impress
wear things that are noticeable
that look hot
that will get a a guys attention
to pick up
and thats exactly what happens when we go out

lol..... g0t confidence?

 

[OZGIRL86]

Dressing in a certain way may be asking for ATTENTION but it certainly isn't asking to be RAPED. We should be able to wear what we want, when we want. Men don't have the right to have any woman they want.

exactly!!!!

 

[mahuligan]

but just because men dont have the right doesnt mean they wont still do it..as if a rapist cares about rights!
by the way..i have a feeling a few of the boys might be offended with us continually saying men are rapists... dont worry, i know women rape people aswell

 

[reemz]

look ok no matta wat religion it is rape is seen as disgraceful true? but u have 2 admitt there r gals out there that go walkin wearin unappropiate clothes to show there great bodies off but they have to no that different ppl see this in a different way, some men may see this way of dressing is ok others see it as a sign of the gal being cheap and askin 4 it. islam is against this unappropiate dressin as its not the looks that matter but the personality and the actual person thats why women were the scaf ts a sign of self respect. now wat the cleric has stated mite sem harsh to some but to others it may seem trye but the thing IS everybody is intitled to there own opinion. now it takes two to tango but the blame should go on all the muslims as not all of them are the same and not all leb guys are rapists. there are always a group in each culture that disgraces the whole group.

keep i mind to rape a women is a sin in islam even if the man claims she was askin for it it is still a sin and for that man to committ such a sin they mustnt be very religous as they have committed 1 of the biggest sins in islam

 

[Sepulchres]

You are excusing rape with male biological urges. Certainly, provocative clothing arouses us, but we are bound by morals and ethics which prevent us from blatently approaching a provacatively-clothed female and raping her. Mankind has spent centuries cultivating things like culture and etiqutte, of which non-consenting sex is not apart of. Our society, our culture and basic humanism should put us above primitive caveman desires.

The male urge for sex is equalled, in my opinion, by the male urge for food. Just because food and eating food are biological urges does not mean we can, for example, enter a supermarket and proceed to eat whatever we please. Society demands we earn money and BUY food with that money, the same way socitey demands we court and befriend a woman before having sex with her.

Just because food looks delicious does not detract from our guilt should we eat it without purchasing it.

So, you have established that it is wrong to rape and society doesn't allow it. Well done. Now to proceed further, lets establish that there will always be people who break the rules et laws of "society" and if you;ve been in touch with current affairs (I assume so since this is a current affairs forum), then you would've realised that rape is a problem, which means that there are a lot of people not buying their food. Precautions must be taken and those precautions are what has been emphasized over and over again in this thread.

Just because mankind spent centuries cultivating things like culture and etiqeutte, doesnt mean rapist wouldn't exist. Also, the punishment given to rapists (no matter how harsh) wont stop them in any way so you really have to look at the root of the problem.

 

[soha]

lol..... g0t confidence?

my friends and people i know...
not to me
coz i dress modestly..because im muslim

 

[OZGIRL86]

I couldn't walk through Hurstville when I lived there without coping some verbal abuse for being australian, or see 10 lebos harrasing one or two aussie boys. I have mates who have been gang bashed or tormented for being australian. I understand my hatred has gotten to a point were it's no longer rational, but thats what happens. Why the media emphasis when an arab commits a crime? Because theres hundreds of others just like me in Sydney, and we all feel the same, we're all fed up with this crap. Articles like this are directed at people like me because we get worked up over them.

That's the same as in Bankstown.
From what I've seen/experienced IMO the majority of them have no respect for Australian women.
It disgusts me..
I'm fed up too.