Muslim cleric: women incite men's lust with 'satanic dress' (2 Viewers)

[SabtheLab]

You are excusing rape with male biological urges. Certainly, provocative clothing arouses us, but we are bound by morals and ethics which prevent us from blatently approaching a provacatively-clothed female and raping her. Mankind has spent centuries cultivating things like culture and etiqutte, of which non-consenting sex is not apart of. Our society, our culture and basic humanism should put us above primitive caveman desires.

The male urge for sex is equalled, in my opinion, by the male urge for food. Just because food and eating food are biological urges does not mean we can, for example, enter a supermarket and proceed to eat whatever we please. Society demands we earn money and BUY food with that money, the same way socitey demands we court and befriend a woman before having sex with her.

Just because food looks delicious does not detract from our guilt should we eat it without purchasing it.

leeton, by no means am i suggesting that females are deserving of this kind of treatment nor am i excusing rape as a consequence of natural male urges. what i am saying and i have no problem in saying this, is by parading her half-naked body, a woman will be attracting the stares and desires of men. according to your reasoning, culture has had time to refine itself over the ages and submit itself to etiqutte. But to say that basic human instinct has lost the battle to culture is pushing it a bit. No matter how hard we try, nature will pervade our actions in some way or another. In this instance, instinct often chooses to show itself in the domain of sustenance, reproduction and sleep. These three are aspects of human nature which we will never be able to override. They define us as humans and to a deeper extent, as mammals- animals who cannot help following their urges. We have to eat, sleep and have sex. Thankfully, contrary to animals, we do not randomly copulate but nevertheless, that element still exists within us. Over the centuries, yes, we've masked this element through social and cultural refinement and fulfilled "socitey demands that we court and befriend a woman before having sex with her". But this doesnt remove the basic human (male mainly ) urge to have sex with every Tomette, Dickette and Hariette. And pushing the right buttons will cause that urge to emerge. And leeton, im sure you, as a male, would agree that if an attractive, half-naked female were to walk past you, teasing and flirting, some part of you will be saying " damn i want to **** her". Perhaps you can handle yourself and not engage in " non-consenting sex " but other "less refined" males perhaps can't. Perhaps they're more in touch with their carnal nature. If he acts on this nature then he deserves full punishment. But at the same time, women should know better than to push the buttons which will provoke the guy in the first place. Cover up, don't parade your naked body and allow us to reap the rewards of all those centuries of "cultural and social refinement".

 

[Generator]

Precautions must be taken and those precautions are what has been emphasized over and over again in this thread.

Another precaution could be to ensure that all men become eunuchs sooner rather than later (i.e., another over-reaction). Styles of clothing garner attention, not acts of sexual assault.

The root of the problem rests with us men, not the woman. Don't try and suggest that a man's actions may in some way be justified by those of the woman in this regard, as even in 'practical' terms that frame of mind is disgusting.

 

[Sepulchres]

Another precaution could be to ensure that all men become eunuchs sooner rather than later (i.e., another over-reaction). Styles of clothing garner attention, not acts of sexual assault.

The root of the problem rests with us men, not the woman. Don't try and suggest that a man's actions may in some way be justified by those of the woman in this regard, as even in 'practical' terms that frame of mind is disgusting.

As much as you want to deny it, clothing is 'one' of the factors. No one suggests that the man's actions are justified. I made it very clear from the begginning that men are to blame.

 

[mahuligan]

Another precaution could be to ensure that all men become eunuchs sooner rather than later (i.e., another over-reaction). Styles of clothing garner attention, not acts of sexual assault.

The root of the problem rests with us men, not the woman. Don't try and suggest that a man's actions may in some way be justified by those of the woman in this regard, as even in 'practical' terms that frame of mind is disgusting.

i dont think most of us are justifying it though... we're just saying that its more likely a rapist would target someone who is dressed in a sexually appealing manner, than someone covered head to toe in loose clothing.
there is no excuse for rape, and i dont think anyone is trying to undermine the seriousness of the crime.

 

[SabtheLab]

That's the same as in Bankstown.
From what I've seen/experienced IMO the majority of them have no respect for Australian women.
It disgusts me..
I'm fed up too.

ozgirl, it's understandable that ur fed up with these leb boys terrorising australian women. what you have to understand is that the behaviour of an individual is not always reflective of their faith. yes these boys happen to be muslim but that in no way is indicative of their belief system. as muslims, it is obligatory that we respect others, regardless of their race (in fact distinction between people on account of their race is strictly forbidden in Islam). i can offer one reason as to the root of this disrespect and it actually ties in with the prevailing debate in this forum. Muslims are basically raised to cherish modesty and chastity, as these lebs are. So when they go out and see half-naked women in the streets, exhibiting morals and values in stark contrast to those which they believe are deserving of respect, they themselves begin to harbour disrespect for these girls, as is seen in their behaviour toward them. Of course, this is completely unjustified but thats perhaps the way lebs respond to this difference in cultures.

 

[tempco]

the funny thing is that for some reason, the behaviour of some lebanese boys are some how indicative of what Islam stands for, rather than being related to their race. eg. an asian woman is involved in an accident where it is clearly her fault. conclusion: asians are bad drivers because theyre Buddhists. does that happen? of course not.

 

[leetom]

As much as you want to deny it, clothing is 'one' of the factors. No one suggests that the man's actions are justified. I made it very clear from the begginning that men are to blame.

The idea of women being more prone to rape because she is dressed provocatively is so ridiculous there arn't even any statistics to either prove or disprove such an idea. (I couldn't find any at least).

While it is very pragmatic of Sepulcheres to suggest that rape is cause by provocative clothing, it is merely his reasoning to explain rape. As far as I know, no societal analysis has been conducted into the effect a woman's clothing has on the possibility of her being raped.

As far as I know, a rapist is a predator who acts on oppurtunity, he will target a woman at an ideal time and location regardless of what she is wearing.

 

[tempco]

agreeing with leetom.. rapists have their mind set on what they are about to do. clothing would probably have nothing to do with it.

 

[mahuligan]

surely it would have some impact? im not saying every single rape ever committed consisted of a victim wearing provocactive clothing...but if a rapist was searching for a possible victim wouldnt he chose the more sexually appealing girl in her short skirt and midrif top compared to a woman who was covered completely?
im not saying this happens in every single case because obviously it doesnt..but im sure it could be a factor in some cases.
by the way...in no way am i saying that a woman who dresses in a particular way deserves to victimised more than another, im just saying it could lead to unwanted sexual attention..even if it doesnt go as far as rape.

 

[tempco]

on second thought, i take my post back. provocative clothing will make a woman more susceptible to being raped if a rapist happens to be around the area.

and how are they supposed analyse such a factor anyway.. is there a standard in place where they could determine whether clothing is provocative or not? and in order to create an accurate survey, how are they supposed to determine the number and clothing of the rapists possible targets? too many variables. it just wouldnt work.

 

[fashionista]

In an ideal world a woman should be able to walk down a crowded street naked and not be subject to jeers, cat-calls, wolf-whistles, pick-ups...but we don't live in an ideal world. Our world is flawed and we have to compensate for that with morals and ethics, which is what Islam enforces. Islam recommends that women cover themselves modestly to avoid men viewing them through a sexual gaze and allow them to atleast focus on their minds seeing as the body is covered. It gives women another dimension, rather than just being an object of sexual desire.

 

[Sepulchres]

My friend read this thread and came up with the following three statements and I think he has sumed it up quite well...

"1) Women dressed inappropriately do have a higher chance of getting raped
2) Regardless of how harsh the law might be concerning rapists, there will still be rapists
3) A man's sexual behaviour and desire will not change...it just wont. So there is something women are faced with, and this problem has no solution - they will always face the chance of being raped. BUT to decrease their chances, they should dress appropriately."

 

[Arvin Sloane]

I like satanic dress.

 

[soha]

agreeing with leetom.. rapists have their mind set on what they are about to do. clothing would probably have nothing to do with it.

its not only in reguards to rape
its also about harassment in general
no one is going to say hey sexy..or hey baby..etc to a scalved woman..
but they do to a girl in a mini skirt and exposing top..
they way u dress implys many things
u wnat respect...dress respectful
however
i thing u should be able to dress however u so desire and not be harassed
but thats not the way it works sadly..

 

[jennylim]

I like satanic dress.

LOL that's the point of this whole thread...discussing how guys react to it etc....

aaand that whole thing about what muslims really do think about this random sheikh

 

[blackfriday]

very simple: girls dont dress like you want sex from anything that moves and guys keep your fly zipped up and your hands to yourself.

 

[Generator]

they way u dress implys many things
u wnat respect...dress respectful
however
i thing u should be able to dress however u so desire and not be harassed
but thats not the way it works sadly..

Why is it that a mini skirt is less respectful than any other form of clothing? It's a social construction, that's why. This isn't an issue of clothing, it's an issue concerning attitudes. Maybe in time you will all take note of that.

 

[Benny_]

This smells like a blatant attempt to stir up controversy to me. It's really an extremely irresponsible piece even for her standards. My respect for Devine has just gone down another few notches.

 

[tempco]

Why is it that a mini skirt is less respectful than any other form of clothing? It's a social construction, that's why. This isn't an issue of clothing, it's an issue concerning attitudes. Maybe in time you will all take note of that.

how can you deny that mini-skirts and revealing tops make women sexual objects?

 

[ihavenothing]

Does satanic dress include cute lil devil horns...im sure theyre all the rage out on the street and everything...

This guy is obviously a flip and uneducated if hes going to draw bullshit conclusion saying all these things happen because of one reason. My arse!

I wouldnt wanna extradite the bastard in case he pisses some other countries ppl off aswell, probly except saudi arabia where hed face sum stiff competition...

Yeh, i've seen muslim men wearing little yarmulkes (skullcaps) but the idea has nothing to do w modesty i think. In Judaism it is sorta like a thinking cap for keeping in religious thoughts for not forgetting the words of the Torah. I think the same thing applies in Islam because they have the same roots.