School Chaplaincy (4 Viewers)

[*TRUE*]

OKAY OKAY OKAY
Everyone. Chaplains are not needed (Christian instruction can take place outside of school , and arguably should in a public school), & it ISNT feasible without discriminating against some religions/schools.
If anyone wants to debate stick to the point.
The point is not old hags or natural selection.

 

[katie tully]

Aren't you the silly country yokel with a kid?


Lulz, hanging out on student forums worrying about matters that don't concern your small bogan town. Hilarious.


If God were kinder he would have made you infertile. He is cruel like that .

It's not a just an HSC student forum. If you note, there are university sections. Oh and I'm a student, I guess that means I'm ok!

And as a tax payer I have every right to discuss this coz it's our tax money funding this ridiculous idea!

God was kind. He blessed me with a cute, blonde, blue eyed little darling. Hitler would be proud.

 

[*TRUE*]

It IS in public school, as mentioned numerous times. Chaplaincy on the other hand, is not, and should not be.

I agree to a large extent. There are not scripture teachers in every school.
Saying that many general teachers are probably Christian anyway ( as you did) is a bit ridiculous imo , they arent there to give religious instruction.
The way i see it , if you really want your child to have religious instruction in school , send them to a religious private school
I dont see why religious instruction NEEDS to take place in school either.

 

[*TRUE*]

1) Scripture isn't usually given by TEACHERS, but volunteers who come into the school (as mentioned earlier...numerous times)
2) How is arguing teachers are more than like Christian, rediculous? I didn't state they were there for religious instruction (didn't even go close to this), and I provided evidence to support the claim (ABS publication). I 'll provide more of them (several different locations) if you wish, but it isn't going to change a thing. THe majority of people in our society are Christian.

I really dont know what you are arguing...but i suspect it is a strawman....

 

[goliwog]

hmmm ... well the requirements to become a volunteer are getting stricter... many casual teachers are teaching scripture now and many qualified teachers are being paid by the church to teach 5 days a week ... I know when a job went for a scripture teacher at wyong high 28 people applied for the job ... and they only considered applicant that had been teachers for quite some time ...

But thats the central coast

How is arguing teachers are more than like Christian, rediculous? I didn't state they were there for religious instruction (didn't even go close to this), and I provided evidence to support the claim (ABS publication). I 'll provide more of them (several different locations) if you wish, but it isn't going to change a thing. THe majority of people in our society are Christian.

depends on how you define christian really... if you go along the lines of how the government defines Christian then your completely right.

 

[lokilokii]

Definition of the word secular.

• [SIZE=-1]Relating to the doctrine that rejects religion and religious considerations.[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=-1]Not concerned with or devoted to religion.[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=-1]Secularity (adjective form secular) is the state of being separate from religion.[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=-1]Not religious.[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=-1]Relating to worldly things as distinguished from things relating to church and religion.[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=-1]This term often refers to the things of this world as opposed to the things of theism.
  
  Public schools are SECULAR:burn:
  [/SIZE]

 

[Slidey]

I really dont know what you are arguing...but i suspect it is a strawman....

Hey true, do you know what a straw man is?

 

[RohanZ]

I really dont know what you are arguing...but i suspect it is a strawman....

He's saying that most teachers in public schools are Christian, and being Christians, they can give some spiritual guidance to their Christian pupils.

but tbh, I don't see the use of a chaplain. I don't think it's that hard to say "believe in Jesus and god and everything wil be A-okay" I'd say that would probably be a generic answer given to the students by a chaplain.

 

[*TRUE*]

I quoted what I was arguing. But, just for your benefit, I'll post it again.



Would you care to explain where strawman fits into my argument?

Do i need to?
Teachers in public schools are not employed for their religious beliefs and should not be depended upon nor expected to give religious instruction. It is not their responsibility. That was my point.
Whether they hold Christian beliefs or not does not really interest me.

 

[RohanZ]

Do i need to?
Teachers in public schools are not employed for their religious beliefs and should not be depended upon nor expected to give religious instruction. It is not their responsibility. That was my point.
Whether they hold Christian beliefs or not does not really interest me.

yeah, but being christians, they can offer some sort of guidance when approached with a spiritual problem.

 

[*TRUE*]

Hey true, do you know what a straw man is?

Yes. I was under the impression that Exphate was determined to see me hold a different position to the one he holds , when i did not believe this to be the case.

 

[Slidey]

Moral of the story: don't send your kids to a public school.

 

[*TRUE*]

Moral of the story: don't send your kids to a public school.

Moral of the story : don't send your kids to a public school if you want them to have a religious education.

 

[*TRUE*]

I have never claimed that teachers are employed to be religious advisors, so please, stop drawing that assumption. I'm merely stating that in a society with a Christian majority, it is conceivable that the majority of teachers will be Christian, and these individuals will be able to provide the "religious support" needed by students, rather than employing a Chaplain.

This argument isn't about religious instruction. It's about SUPPORT. You seem to be getting mixed up.

I dont think it is to be expected or even likely that a Christian teacher will offer religious 'support' to a Christian pupil.
Its a little like saying a teacher who is a tennis player will offer 'support' to all tennis players in his class. Its conceivable that the shared hobby might come up in conversation , but unlikely to be any sort of 'support'.
Can you clarify what you mean by 'support'?
EDIT: Also you provided some census information , but coming to the conclusion that the percentage of Christians will remain constant in all professions - this is not something I am sure I can concur with.

 

[Slidey]

Moral of the story : don't send your kids to a public school if you want them to have a religious education.

Moral of the story: don't send your kids to a public school if you want them to have an education.

Oh, snap.

 

[*TRUE*]

Support, just as a counselor does, but on a "spiritual" level.

And if a student talks openly about a religious issue, a Christian teacher has the opportunity (if they wish) to get involved, there is no expection of this occuring. As for whether it's likely, who's to say? You again, have twisted my words, and taken "they will be able to provide" as "they will provide", because these to notions are vastly different.

Look mate Im sorry , but you are arguing that Christian teachers are theoretically able to provide religious counsel to their Christian students.
There is not any point insofar as i can see , why you should argue such a thing.
It is theoretically possible...for many things to be.
If a student talks openly about a religious issue , a Christian teacher in a public school has the responsibility first and foremost to respect the individual beliefs of every student and in no way hamper their public school education.
If you are talking private counsel , again , theoretically possible , but to my mind not even something worth mentioning.

 

[*TRUE*]

Moral of the story: don't send your kids to a public school if you want them to have an education.

Oh, snap.

Lol!!! Oh sad , but sadly often true

 

[*TRUE*]

Why is there no point for it being mentioned? We have many Christians in schools who are able to provide support on a spiritual level if requested, why pay another person to come in and do this?

I suppose for me I just dont feel that the above is the reason for the argument against Chaplains.
Public Schools are secular. Religious counsel/support can be sought outside of school.
My argument is why pay someone for something uneccessary. Particularly when it could be seen as discriminatory.

 

[*TRUE*]

Which is what I've argued all along.

Quite so, for a long while we have been discussing whether or not the fact that their MIGHT be a large percentage of Christian teachers in public schools and whether that is a reason for not having Chaplains.... You say yes , i say it has nothing to do with it.
I never understood why you went down that route at all.....

 

[*TRUE*]

If you don't understand the reason for the reference now, you aren't going to, because I've repeated my argument time and time again.

In reply , if you dont see why i see your 'reference' as without merit, lacking any sort of requisite qualities...then you probably will not , because we have talked about it at length.
I dont know why we bothered , seeing as we actually agree.