uws is shit (2 Viewers)

[HerO]

I got the impression that all he was saying was that the lack of facilities doesn't necessarily equate to a guaranteed worse learning environment, with worse results, and that there are factors aside from that which come into play.

Yea i know, facility aint everything, it's up 2 the individual 2 make things happen.

I'm not even interested in whether lack of facilties do make learning harder. All i'm saying is merely that ppl who agree facilities make learning easier would instantaneously be also saying lack of facilities make learning harder. Now by saying "harder" it doesn't mean..."feck my Uni is gonna feck me up"...instead the word "harder" can be expressed at many levels, whether its extremely harder, or insignificantly harder.

 

[ogmzergrush]

Yea i know, facility aint everything, it's up 2 the individual 2 make things happen.

I'm not even interested in whether lack of facilties do make learning harder. All i'm saying is merely that ppl who agree facilities make learning easier would instantaneously be also saying lack of facilities make learning harder. Now by saying "harder" it doesn't mean..."feck my Uni is gonna feck me up"...instead the word "harder" can be expressed at many levels, whether its extremely harder, or insignificantly harder.

I agree completely, and seeing as you've said that too I really don't understand why anyone is arguing with AsyLum, as this is essentially exactly the same thing that he has said?

 

[HerO]

I agree completely, and seeing as you've said that too I really don't understand why anyone is arguing with AsyLum, as this is essentially exactly the same thing that he has said?

Nah mate, he's a retarded fool...and he makes no sense, "death is bad, life is good" blah blah blah essentially that's true, but that has no relevance 2 the tpoic and thus he's a fool...

 

[AsyLum]

Ignorance is bliss to the fool

 

[HerO]

A fool shall not be associated with bliss

 

[AsyLum]

I think ill let your idiocy fester for the rest, that doesnt need any comment.

 

[Shuter]

Seriously how can you challendge this statement I'll make:

"Better Facilities are an advantage is making learning easier"

and a logic reversal of this statement then is:

"Having less facilities is a contributing factor in making learning more difficult" (MORE difficult relative to if you had better facilities, I didn't say hard altogether).

 

[AsyLum]

So having access to more facilities now instantly must mean you're a rich moronic snob? Jeez sounds like you've got a chip on your should for not making it into UNSW or something.

The concept of you not understanding just illustrates my point.

In a utopian world, we would all be on a level playing field, whereas we can compare everyone in the one exam, under one guideline, under a singular entity, because of course, everyone would be in a homogenous society.

In reality, that is far from the truth. I have never denied that better facilities would enable an increase in the ability to access and perhaps better your learning experience, but as to whether this automatically means "learning" , the process or otherwise, is inherently AND automatically made better, as you and hero seem to insinuate, is the basis of the problem. You assume that IF one has the potential, then the actuality must therefore be fulfilled. If you are smart, but do no work, and fail an exam, then the potential is laid to waste. If you are mediocre, but do plenty of work, and top the class, the potential has been fulfilled.

What im trying to say is that the facilities may play a part, but it does not AUTOMATICALLY mean that a=b. There are other factors, and when enrolling into uni, you are expected to do a lot more of your own work, you are not spoonfed, and as such merely saying "oh but you didnt give me enough computers" is not justifiable within the context of the real world.

Reality is harsh, you are not expected to be on a level playing field once you leave uni and apply for a job, so why should uni be any different?

And no, i dont have a chip off my shoulder about the sydney unis, i got into my preferred uni, and i never even applied for USYD UNSW or UTS.

 

[...]

you don't need top class facilities to be smart

and when some people say if you don't have good facilities, your study is gonna be diffcult

i think you should rephrase that sentence as;

if your uni don't have good facilities, all you need to do is put in the extra yards to make things happen

 

[...]

I'm not even interested in whether lack of facilties do make learning harder. All i'm saying is merely that ppl who agree facilities make learning easier would instantaneously be also saying lack of facilities make learning harder. Now by saying "harder" it doesn't mean..."feck my Uni is gonna feck me up"...instead the word "harder" can be expressed at many levels, whether its extremely harder, or insignificantly harder.

you are only taking people who rely on resources given by the uni a lot to study into account

but isn't that just "spoon feeding"(notice i used this word loosely) and uni don't really encourage that?


have you taken account into the people that do a lot of self study??? to them, it doesn't matter what uni they go do, what matters is what they learnt matters

 

[Shuter]

Reality is harsh, you are not expected to be on a level playing field once you leave uni and apply for a job, so why should uni be any different?

That's right. All I'm saying though is having better facilities will generally make learning EASIER. So basically I can be (to a degree) lazier at my uni and still achieve the same level of education as at UWS. (I.e. due to the better facilities, similar results can be acheived with slightly less effort required (whether that effort be in the form of having to turn up early to get a seat or taking time to find a computer ect).

Argueing about if it gives you a BETTER education, or enables you to learn more are grey areas. But in reality I'm just saying you want uni to be as easy as possible, but still learn the required materials, and having better facilities will do this. So it is a valid complaint if a uni is lacking in facilities as this will make his/her learning more difficult.

Sure it's unfair, and because they chose that they have to live with it, but don't argue with the fact that it probably is harder to go there than major sydney uni's, if we simply talk about the facilities either one has.

 

[klh]

what type of facilities are you talking about.
youve mentioned as an example that if uws were bankrupt and couldnt afford the printer/computer services. however, uws facilities are all there catered for students needs. the library is up to date, not like the uws of years ago, all the computers are working and have appropriate software installed and available, webct ofcourse and our lecture rooms are far better and modern than many lecture halls of old institutions, are charis arent stiff wood liike usyd to say. all of our classess have ohp or pnormal projectors etc.
so our facilities arent holding us back..its up to the people. lecture notes are a foundation, structure to help us study, its not required, with the exception of certain units. most of it is form the book anyway and if oyu dont understand, you can email or ask the lecturer/tutor.
though uws is not high acaademically overall, thats because of studeents who just want the bare minimum marks etc...or those who just want a degree. there are many distinguished peole that have graduated from uws or those who have went further, read or brochures and you will see many examples of these poeple. the commonality is that all worked hard and had the precise skill and qualities that helped them there as well as oppportunities.
yes facilities facilitate learning, but we have adequate facilites already. not to mention the bars and gyms, we got pools to. let see if you got one huh???

 

[LaraB]

Nat, should I be surprised or is it juz so typical of u. Yet again u have ignored everything u have said and therefore juz proves u ARE the CONTRADICTION QUEEN.

But ok fine, if u wanna only refer back to the statement "USYD STUDENT'S KNOW JACK SHIT", then u never in any sort of way refered 2 it as "USYD STUDENTS KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT UWS" rather u made a generalisation that "USYD STUDENTS KNOW JACK SHIT"

Therefore ur saying Usyd students know ABSOLUTELY JACK SHIT about anything and everything rather than the more polite way by saying, Usyd students know JACK SHIT about UWS

Hero - rather than just repest my entire conversation before in response to your comments i will just say this - do not criticise people for contradicting themselves when you ignore the context of the statement and if you are just going to keep bitching back at people - just leav the forum. Im pretty sure that not many people value this kind of irrelevant ignorant comments.

Natstar said - Loneshadow- its actually ok when UWS people call UWS shit, becuase they have actually expereinced it. USYD students have no right saying anything cuz well, they know jack shit dont they

therefore she DID NOT contradict herself - quite obviuosly she is referring to peope calling uws shit

seriously, get over yourself and go find something better to do rather than professing so arrogantly that what you say is fact when you are quite clearly WRONG!

 

[LaraB]

Nope u HAVE contradicted urself, here's why:

If u agree the claim that "facilities facilitate learning" that meaning, make learning easier then it would certainly follow that "lack of facilities make learning harder" here's an example why it is so:
.......
......

So therefore this student's learning capacity is made HARDER, whether it's made harder by alot or not by much that is not the point, the point being the the fact that the lack of facilities deprived the student countless hours of study time could of been avoided if the Uni had better facilities and thus the student's time could be put 2 better use.

Damn, sometimes i wonder why people need 2 be spoon fed 2 understand simple facts.

dont talk down at me you jerk -
you ar ejust adopting the argument i used! and then spitting it back at me saying "you're wrong because you agree with this...."

once again, initially i disagreed because you said facilities make learning easy, lack o fthem therefore means learning is hard.
My response was yes they can facilitate learning ie make it easier and a lack of them would perhaps make youre learning different/not as easy as with them but it wouldnt necessarily be hard/difficult just different...

you then said i contradicted myself because both our statements were the same andi cant agree with oneand not the other..

but anyone with a grasp on the english language could see that each statement differs - ie i used comparative terms, you use absolutes, therefore our points differ...

to which you then said i was contradicting myself, when i wasnt and other people did agree with me that it m ade sense.

you have simply changed your argument from "lack of facilities make uni hard to "lack of facilities make uni harder ", which was MY INITIAL ARGUMENT!!!

so dont bitch back and act like im some moron when clearly you cant even recall what you t hought/said about the subject.

as i have said over and over - if all you wanna do is criticise people, get off the forum and go become a media commentator or some other useless critic

 

[LaraB]

Heh, I noticed LaraB actually repped me, that says alot.

no it doesnt - because i didnt rep you for an argument that you are totally wrong about...

im not as one eyed as you that i wont say that a point that is correct, is correct just because a person is being an arrogant blatantly wrong fool about another point...

and besides you say "that says alot" - ok then., tell me - what does that say? that ur a rep whore who thinks its so valuable? what? coz to me it doesnt mean anything

 

[LaraB]

I have read the posts, but 2 save every1's time I choose the important bits and if those bits seem irrational, I would indeed correct them. But my rationale is fact ridden and facts will not lie and I indeed will present wateva facts that is needed 2 prove I am right. Watch and learn, son.

so what, you're telling me that if someone says "oh my god world war three is coming tomorrow!!!!...... It's at greater union cinemas"

and you take "world war three is coming" to be the 'fact' and then go around telling everyone world war 3's 2moro, we're all gonna die, the world's gonna end, you are therefore 100% correct because that was a "fact" in the statement?

seriously, learn the english language before you start criticising and spouting out shit about what is fact or not - clearly CONTEXT!!!!! is equally important as what was said, especially when you take phrases out of sentences and ignore the bit after that says "but", "because" etc...

in other words - just grow up and stop nit picking at little points that, on their own, become irrelevant/nonsensical

 

[LaraB]

No, feck the lecture, u know JACK SHIT (hey NAT )

If ur gonna choose a example 2 mount ur case then choose something related, fecken fool, has death got anything 2 do with "facilities facilitating learning"?

Welp, if every1 agrees that "facilities facilitate learning", however, not every1 who agreed 2 that point would commit 2 the fact that "lack of facilities make learning harder" then well...feck, people are juz so retarded i juz can't be bothered explaining but feck I will juz 2 prove that i'm right...

The idea: "facilities facilitate learning, therefore make learning easier" is wildly agreed by all...yipppeeee!!!

The idea: "the lack of facilities make learning harder" is however still in the air, dun dun...

Welp, ppl if u fecken agree 2 the idea that "facilities facilitate learning".

IT WOULD HAVE 2 FOLLOW THAT THE LACK OF THOSE FACILITIES WOULD MAKE LEARNING HARDER!...
- even if it doesn't reflect on ur grades, IT STILL MADE THE LEARNING HARDER!...
- even if learning is not made harder by alot thru the lack of facilities, IT STILL MAKES LEARNING HARDER!...
- even if ur a super smart asswipe who doesn't require any facilities, IT STILL MADE LEARNING HARDER than it would have if the facilities were made available

So yeah, again, if u agree that "facilities make learning easier", u CANNOT reasonably argue that "lack of facilities" doesn't make learning harder, since u already agreed that "facilities make learning easier", it would follow that lack of facilties would be harder even if it's not a significant difference, the mere fact that u agreed 2 the claim "facilities makes learning easier" then that would instataneously mean that lack of those facilties would make learning harder

rather than repeat myself all over again - i'll summise - i said lack of facilities doesnt necessarily make it hard, just not as easy perhaps as with them -

so stop getting on your damn high horse and saying xyz is fact when everyone else has already been saying that!!!!

 

[LaraB]

you don't need top class facilities to be smart

and when some people say if you don't have good facilities, your study is gonna be diffcult

i think you should rephrase that sentence as;

if your uni don't have good facilities, all you need to do is put in the extra yards to make things happen

which is what i was getting at, until Hero turned it into an argument by saying i was wrong because i contradicted myself even though im 100% sure its impossible to contradict yourself when you've said the same damn thing everytim!

 

[AsyLum]

That's right. All I'm saying though is having better facilities will generally make learning EASIER. So basically I can be (to a degree) lazier at my uni and still achieve the same level of education as at UWS. (I.e. due to the better facilities, similar results can be acheived with slightly less effort required (whether that effort be in the form of having to turn up early to get a seat or taking time to find a computer ect).

Argueing about if it gives you a BETTER education, or enables you to learn more are grey areas. But in reality I'm just saying you want uni to be as easy as possible, but still learn the required materials, and having better facilities will do this. So it is a valid complaint if a uni is lacking in facilities as this will make his/her learning more difficult.

Sure it's unfair, and because they chose that they have to live with it, but don't argue with the fact that it probably is harder to go there than major sydney uni's, if we simply talk about the facilities either one has.

If you think facilities will mean you receive a better education or easier marks you've got a fuckload of reality to learn about.

 

[Cape]

Poloktim - even though I said blame the government for our situation and the financial difficulty that uws is having, uws did cut a number of different courses and even merged some similar courses last year to save money. For example, the merged the two tourism courses, the cut a few teaching courses (and before anyone says they should NOT have done this, you can study these courses as grad).

I would like to know what facilities uws doesn't have to increased my education? I agree with KLH, we have an up to date library, access to the latest online journals, our lecturers have had first hand experience in the field (which actually does give you more of an insight than a textbook does), we have the latest textbooks. What facilities are we missing? Sandstone and the city personally, I like the fresh air out where I go, and yes, sometimes we have lectures on the grass, thats only cause it gets so stuffy in the lecture room, even with air con, and its a beatiful day outside, why not use this to study?