Where are all the real men? :cold: (1 Viewer)
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Masculininty has been too strongly associated with violence, thuggishness, emotional isolation. The unbalanced masculinity of our forefathers, when taken to it's logical extreme is a dangerous and self-destructive force, well may the world be rid of it.
Forget masculine and feminine. We need humanist and family orientated values, loving and protecting our community, hard work etc...
I think we should encourage these so called 'masculine' values, "adventure, ambition, resilience, ruggedness and leadership" in all individuals, regardless of gender.
There are more important values to define yourself by than gender roles. All individuals, male and female, should ideally aspire to be loving, hard working, protecting, community orientated.
Forget masculine and feminine. We need humanist and family orientated values, loving and protecting our community, hard work etc...
I think we should encourage these so called 'masculine' values, "adventure, ambition, resilience, ruggedness and leadership" in all individuals, regardless of gender.
There are more important values to define yourself by than gender roles. All individuals, male and female, should ideally aspire to be loving, hard working, protecting, community orientated.
Silver Persian
Banned
Oh I'm sorry. i thought you were arguing that conservative values were good from a utilitarian perspective. But apparently you are a blindly-prostrating-yourself-in-front-of-God conservative.Iron said:
Iron
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I dont see the alternative. If youre trying to conserve the institutions fundamental to the good life, you need solid grounding in truth; God is essential. Otherwise it's just castles in clouds my irritating friendSilver Persian said:
Iron
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It was my characterization of the PLAGUE of relativism's paradox, which goes something like 'There is no truth: this is the truth'. It has crippled aeverything in my opinion -all forms of human fulfillment and happiness- not least gender roles.
And it cant be countered because it cant be defined! It is terrifying and beautiful. Simple to understand, and also credible and convincing - but a black hole
And it cant be countered because it cant be defined! It is terrifying and beautiful. Simple to understand, and also credible and convincing - but a black hole
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Silver Persian
Banned
Yes I know, postmodernism can be somewhat annoying.Iron said:
But to recognise that my knowledge is potentially fallible is not immediately to say that my knowledge is wrong. It merely means that I have to seriously think through what I'm thinking and saying, consider what other people are saying, and take up the possibility that I am completely wrong. You can defend arguments and believe them wholeheartedly to be true, so long as you are painstakingly reflexive and self-critical about it and willing to be proven wrong.
Edit: And I thought that post was quite succinct and beautiful in its own way
/flute/lol it doesn't say that there is no truth. At least my spin of it would be that there may very well be an objective reality, just that we have no way of knowing it for certain, we have to always accept that our truth is provisional, incredibly worthy of being worked with, but ultimately we must accept possibly wrong.Iron said:
Iron's a pretty cool guy. He makes creative posts at times, but has become such as caricature, it's impossible to conceive of him as a real person, or really engage with any of his ideas or personality. Which, perhaps was the point.
Iron
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But your notions of a relative right and wrong, based on how persuasively you can argue, are meaningless without conceeding to an ultimate Truth - to God Himself!Silver Persian said:Yes I know, postmodernism can be somewhat annoying.
But to recognise that my knowledge is potentially fallible is not immediately to say that my knowledge is wrong. It merely means that I have to seriously think through what I'm thinking and saying, consider what other people are saying, and take up the possibility that I am completely wrong. You can defend arguments and believe them wholeheartedly to be true, so long as you are painstakingly reflexive and self-critical about it and willing to be proven wrong.
Edit: And I thought that post was quite succinct and beautiful in its own way
A debating victory for the postmodernist is just a recognition that one fellow could fool an audience better than the other. It's aweful
Nah, see because what you've got to realise is that a human being cannot escape human context so as far as any human's concerned I'm fairly sure they're stuck valuing certain things... For instance, I could very well know that the only reason I enjoy sex is because I've been biologically programmed to do so, the pleasure is just chemicals releasing themselves into my brain, but none of that really matters from my context - to me it's fucking sweet and that's all that really matters.
Silver Persian
Banned
I agree with your criticism of very strong postmodernist approaches. But I don't see how the outcome of your critique is that you should become religious. Don't you have any faith in any human-centred form of rationality at all?Iron said: