Where are all the real men? :cold: (3 Viewers)

[Iron]

Nah, see because what you've got to realise is that a human being cannot escape human context so as far as any human's concerned I'm fairly sure they're stuck valuing certain things... For instance, I could very well know that the only reason I enjoy sex is because I've been biologically programmed to do so, the pleasure is just chemicals releasing themselves into my brain, but none of that really matters from my context - to me it's fucking sweet and that's all that really matters.

The pain!
To recognize nothing as definitive, and leave only yourelf with all your natural, selfish desires as the ultimate criterion for truth! Under the mirage of freedom, relativism has imprisoned you, dear NTB! Separated from others, you are locked into your own ego!

Break free from the prison of greed Silverpersian! Break free from the futile purgatory of the self!

 

[Enteebee]

I'm not locked into my own ego, tbh for the most part we don't have any control over our desires. I like rock music, why do I like rock music? Well IDK, it's probably some weird pattern of neural pathways which have been expanded in my brain, but this doesn't make my 'love' of rock music any less real - Because that's all there is for a human. The important thing is that we feel like we have free will... like... I'd propose a turing test for free will, if you interact with the universe and it seems to you like you have free will, well even it's all ultimately a deterministic illusion then you can't tell the difference anyway.

 

[Iron]

I'm sure we've gone over this before. I cant rule out the slither of possibility that it was for futility that the clay grew tall; that nothing made fatuous sunbeams toil to break earth's sleep at all. But my God man, for the sake of whatever's left of my sanity I have to believe that Beethoven is comprehensively, objectively better than Britney

 

[_dhj_]

Actually the concept of truth is a human construct, in the sense that meaning in the form which we understand lives only when the physiological man asserts its existence, either by attributing it to god or otherwise.

 

[Iron]

Yes, thankyou Nietzsche, grandfather of postmodernism

 

[_dhj_]

It's not Nietzschean at all, but certainly there is nothing which is not truth.

 

[HNAKXR]

Masculininty has been too strongly associated with violence, thuggishness, emotional isolation. The unbalanced masculinity of our forefathers, when taken to it's logical extreme is a dangerous and self-destructive force, well may the world be rid of it.

Forget masculine and feminine. We need humanist and family orientated values, loving and protecting our community, hard work etc...

I think we should encourage these so called 'masculine' values, "adventure, ambition, resilience, ruggedness and leadership" in all individuals, regardless of gender.

There are more important values to define yourself by than gender roles. All individuals, male and female, should ideally aspire to be loving, hard working, protecting, community orientated.

take anything to its extreme and it becomes destructive, even values you appreciate such as being loving.

For what reason do you find masculinity incompatible with humanist and family orientated values?

 

[Graney]

take anything to its extreme and it becomes destructive, even values you appreciate such as being loving.

For what reason do you find masculinity incompatible with humanist and family orientated values?

I don't even know what 'masculine values' would be, that we shouldn't reasonably expect women also to hold.

All I see the glorification of masculinity as is an appeal to ignorant violence, emotional retardation "boys don't cry" bullshit.

 

[Graney]

I guess what I associate masculinity with is the glorification of personal power, particularly physical and the domination of others.

Also the idea of never showing weakness, consideration or emotion.

These are not good things, for the soul, or society.

Please enlighten me on what masculinity means to you, and why it is good.

 

[HNAKXR]

At the end of the day we are just arguing semantics, with your interpretation completely different from mine.

however our familliar ground here is stoicism, i actually think being stoic is a good thing. While it may not be confined only to men, it is one of the chief principals of manhood in my opinion.

How do you reason that it has any negative effect? research has shown that those who don't feel the need to openly express their emotions are able to cope just as well as those who do (i will cite the source if you want but it will take me a shit load of digging)

 

[Graney]

How do you reason that it has any negative effect? research has shown that those who don't feel the need to openly express their emotions are able to cope just as well as those who do (i will cite the source if you want but it will take me a shit load of digging)

Men are less likely to seek help for depression
Studies show that men are at greater risk of their depression going unrecognised and untreated compared to women. This may be because men:

• May tend to put off getting help for health problems. This could be because they think they are supposed to be tough, self-reliant, manage pain and take charge of situations. This can make it hard for men to acknowledge they have a health problem, especially a mental health problem.
• Men often try to manage their symptoms of depression by using alcohol and other drugs, which make the symptoms worse.

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Depression_in_men

Men's reluctance to seek help is a serious problem.

I concede there are some virtues associated with masculinity, but I still think the whole concept is inextricably linked to violence and domination. Defining ourselves by traditional gender roles is not the path of enlightenment. In opposing all violence, sadly I may be arguing against an inextricable part of human nature.

 

[Graney]

Depression is for pussy faggots.

Here we have found a real man.

 

[HNAKXR]

Men are less likely to seek help for depression
Studies show that men are at greater risk of their depression going unrecognised and untreated compared to women. This may be because men:

• May tend to put off getting help for health problems. This could be because they think they are supposed to be tough, self-reliant, manage pain and take charge of situations. This can make it hard for men to acknowledge they have a health problem, especially a mental health problem.
• Men often try to manage their symptoms of depression by using alcohol and other drugs, which make the symptoms worse.

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Depression_in_men

Men's reluctance to seek help is a serious problem.

I concede there are some virtues associated with masculinity, but I still think the whole concept is inextricably linked to violence and domination. Defining ourselves by traditional gender roles is not the path of enlightenment. In opposing all violence, sadly I may be arguing against an inextricable part of human nature.

Im not arguing against that i simply say that one should overcome hardships with grace, not cloud their judgment with bravado or become over emotional.

Though i agree with you that violence is an inextricable part of human nature.

I suppose stoicism is not for everyone.

 

[Graney]

So you're not really validating masculinity, but simply stoicism.

Stoicism is fine of course, there are healthy ways of dealing with emotion without publicly displaying your feelings.

 

[HNAKXR]

to me it is the crux of masculinity

though im a hardliner

 

[Graney]

Who would we call icons of masculinity in our society?
The men who inasero lusts after, the antithesis of his korean ladyboys?

Footballers obviously. Lawyers, bankers, doctors- men with big incomes. Players, pimps and pornstars, men who are sexually aggressive, experienced, heterosexual.

So what values have we learned from these great role models?

Wealth, sex and power are everything a mans worth is based upon and valued by.

What of community
compassion
family
love

Masculinity is nothing to glorify.

 

[HNAKXR]

Who would we call icons of masculinity in our society?
The men who inasero lusts after, the antithesis of his korean ladyboys?

Footballers obviously. Lawyers, bankers, doctors- men with big incomes. Players, pimps and pornstars, men who are sexually aggressive, experienced, heterosexual.

So what values have we learned from these great role models?

Wealth, sex and power are everything a mans worth is based upon and valued by.

What of community
compassion
family
love

Masculinity is nothing to glorify.

I measure worth differently i suppose

The issues you raise are attributed to our hedonistic nature not any sole ideology.

 

[Graney]

The issues you raise are attributed to our hedonistic nature not any sole ideology.

It's all fucked and all wants to be torn down. More ideologies ideally to be destroyed.

 

[HNAKXR]

if this world is all there is, it doesn't feel like enough.

 

[Kalashnikov47]

Watching this video yesterday almost made me puke:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=gbAGBZ-DTT8

Has anybody else been bothered by the gradual decline in masculine identity and values in recent times? I'm talking about things like adventure, ambition, resilience, ruggedness and leadership. But everywhere you look you see emasculated men, men fartsing around with handbags and makeup, men who don't really know what they're aiming for in life and are afraid to speak their mind for fear of political correctness. It really bothers me as I'm not the crowning epitome of masculinity I'd hope to be myself, and I think it's time for men to "man-up" and claim their identities, individually and collectively. Don't get me wrong I'm not at all misogynistic, I think feminism has been great in some respects by drawing attention to gender imbalances and teaching men that women are to be respected, but I think the answer isn't to shirk away from masculine values, but to redefine the way we think about what it really means to be a man.

Note: I don't really 0expect we'll be heading down the path of Korea anytime soon, at least for our sakes I really hope not.

Korean Drama=Downfall of Humanity!

Korean TV series are full of rubbish. They think they are funny/romantic/civilised/awesome... in real life they are monotonious/disgusting/savage/homosexual

The Korean ppl just want to live their idealised life in their TV series. God I hate those thirty-year-old men wailing whilst watching bloody Korean TV!

Korean TV series = Instant gratification, Escapism from real life, unrealistic love!


I am not racist, I just discriminate against ALL TV drama (Korean/Taiwanese/Japanese/Hongies in particular)~~~My God life will be so much more pleasant without those things